Dismantled Life : A Podcast about Addiction and Recovery

034 - Lisa Boucher : Raising the Bottom and the Adjustments of Recovery

February 02, 2021 Anthony Capozzoli Season 2 Episode 34
Dismantled Life : A Podcast about Addiction and Recovery
034 - Lisa Boucher : Raising the Bottom and the Adjustments of Recovery
Show Notes Transcript

Lisa Boucher joins me this week to share her story through alcoholism, nursing school, becoming an author, twins, and the calm after the chaos.

Visit Lisa Boucher's website : http://raisingthebottom.com/

Buy Lisa Boucher's Book Raising the Bottom on Amazon

Twitter @Lifedismantled

Follow me and the show on Instagram for a daily dose of fun and motivation in recovery

Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/Dismantledlife)

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (1s):
My name is Anthony Capozzoli and this is the Dismantled Life podcast where we share stories of hope, love, and strength from the darkness of addiction, into the sunlight of sobriety. These are stories from people just like us who have lived through the pain and made it no matter how bad it gets. Just know that you can and will recover. It takes work. It takes hard work. Each week. We talk in detail about what it takes to make it what it takes to beat your addictions. I am a recovering addict from alcohol, cocaine and nicotine. My addiction started in eighth grade I am no 50. I had over 40 years of very bad habits to break. I hit rock bottom hard, more than once.

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (44s):
I nearly died, I would have left my wife and two young children behind. I've been clean and sober for nearly three years. I completely dismantled my entire life and we built it from the ground up. I believe to make it in recovery it takes a physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual approach. It takes a positive mindset. It takes hard work. It takes a village. Join me weekly to learn from my sober superhero guests on Dismantled Life podcast, subscribe and follow us on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you listen to your podcasts. Check me out @ dismantle.life.

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (1m 24s):
Email me @ [email protected] Please be sure to leave a rating and review anywhere you listen to your podcasts and let me know if you want to be on the show, happy recovery.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (1m 32s):
Everyone has their story. That's for sure. And I, and my book are raising the bottom. I don't know if you've checked it out, but I like about my book is I did cause you know, I'm a registered nurse too. So I did like a chapter, two doctors, nurses, and healthcare, because there's a lot of stuff in here that from working in healthcare for 25 years, it's shameful. What's going on. That's a whole podcast episode. Believe me, it's shameful. What's going on. And then I also did like 10 or their voices in the back of the book. Kind of like the big book is the stories in the back of the book because I thought, you know, I had while you'll here, but I mean, I do not have a low bottom.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (2m 18s):
And so I don't have a lot of horror stories and people tend to think that they can't be an alcoholic unless their life is in the gutter. And so I wanted to write something and find people that had higher bottoms that, that you don't have to like, you know, be this homeless guy on the street before you realize you have an issue because my mother did kind of go there and you know, she tried to get help. And that's why I was like, this whole healthcare piece is really missing and recovery because the, a lot of people, they, they, I think people have almost this unhealthy trust with doctors that they went to medical school, they know what they're doing.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (3m 3s):
And honestly they really don't and in treatment team with them and you hear them going, I don't care. Well, let's try this. Who knows? I got to get to my kid's soccer game as this morning out the door. I mean, do you know what I mean? There are parents, there are people and they don't care about you as much as people think they do. So when I have people saying, Oh my doctor, my doctor, you know, it's like, there's that rare doctor out there that people do maybe have a relationship with and have been with the family for years or whatever. But that is few and far between anymore. Now, hopefully these doctors really don't care. They just want to give you a script and get you out of their office. And they don't care what happens to your life once you leave.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (3m 45s):
And that door shuts, they could care less. I don't think people understand. That's how I had to do a chapter on that. And I did a chapter. What your kids say about you and your drinking? Because I feel like children are highly underrepresented and I know that it brings up a lot of guilt in parents and whatnot, but you know what, maybe we need to see their perspective. Maybe that'll help people stop sooner than later. You know what I mean? If your kid's suffering, I mean, that was, I wasn't only sober a little bit or I mean, yeah, it was only a couple of weeks when I got pregnant, but that was an incentive, you know, to not have growing up with an alcoholic Mom, I didn't want that for my kids.

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (4m 33s):
My last episode that has just released on last Friday, Jenny was the guest and she is also a registered nurse. We didn't dive too deeply into the medical side of it, except to say that she was exposed to it, both being on the nursing side as a nurse. And then also as a recovering alcoholic and having to live in the intensive outpatient care where she would go and didn't stay over in the recovery process. So the, but we learned, I learned a lot about that process as well. Both of these topics are extremely interesting to me. And I think one of them around the medical side is I, I agree with you. I think that doctors and nurses are absolutely do their respect of course, but I also think that in order to be good at helping people through recovery, through addiction and being in getting and staying sober, I think you have to have a little bit of that in.

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (5m 24s):
Yeah. I think having lived, it gives you a credence or some kind of authority, but I think it gives you the real sense of what it's like,

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (5m 32s):
What's going on right now. Here's the other sad part. Unfortunately, my nephew is engaged to a doctor. She just graduated medical school. And so I said, Jessica, what'd you guys learn about addiction? Anything? She said, no, how slow does that? I mean, this is today's world. This, you know, it's so relevant and why aren't they teaching it in medical school? It's crazy.

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (5m 59s):
It's nuts to me that honestly, that it isn't covered in medical school. And I think it should be part of a curriculum at say the very least, maybe an active after graduation, perhaps when you're on rotation,

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (6m 10s):
Because they're good. That's all they're going to run into. You know what I work for? I worked in the emergency room, literally 80% of what's coming through the doors is diseases related to drugs and or alcohol trauma. I worked at a level one trauma center where the helicopter bringing in crash victims and, you know, gunshot wound, drugs and alcohol were always lurking in the background of most of the traumas, you know? No, but most,

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (6m 39s):
Yeah, both of them are interesting. So maybe we could start if you, if you don't mind, I would love to hear your backstory a little bit. And it's so one thing too, that I want to touch on the medical side of it, the kids, and then how rock bottom doesn't have to be as Rocky as most people think. I like that. I had a rough rock bottom, but two out. So someone looking in, they wouldn't have really noticed my rock bottom. My rock bottom was so hard because of my personal experience with it. But from the out, from some of the late person looking in, they would have never known,

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (7m 9s):
Right? Every, all the props are in place. I like to

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (7m 13s):
Perfectly stated everything is in place. Everything was in order. So I would like to talk about maybe not so Rocky about them.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (7m 20s):
I love that because that's my that's really my whole focus. My whole message is we do not have to hit these low bottoms and have these war stories, qualify for recovery.

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (7m 33s):
I agree wholeheartedly with you because I think that most people, if maybe they just realized that a problem before it got so bad that they, you know, maybe there would be some, some differences there, but

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (7m 44s):
You know, the guilt and the shame and the especially moms. I mean, so many of these women they do when they finally get sober, they beat themselves up forever. You know, it's hard to let go of that. And if you can get sober a little bit early, that saves you that much less anx, you know, down the road. So my journey started with my mother. I talk about it in my book, how we are like intertwined, like beads on a necklace because you know, when you're raised with an alcoholic mom and my mother, I have to talk about her so that I can talk about me and her addiction started with value.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (8m 25s):
That was the first billion with a B dollar drug of the non of the sixties. And she was a registered nurse and she had four kids in this crazy Italian husband who was not at all helpful. And so she started taking Valium via the doctor and our life ended up being one trip to the drug store after the other, after the other. And that's how her addiction started. And then it escalated later on with, I mean, I would say my mother was always a social drinker. She'd have a few drinks and get all giggly and whatnot.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (9m 5s):
And that was about it. And I remember my parents having card club, those kinds of things. My father was not a big drinker. I mean, he's he drank, but not, you know, once in a while, you'd see him have a beer after mowing the lawn or at holidays or when they went out or whatnot, but it was not a staple in our home. And so my mother as her addiction escalated, it became very much. But even then I think there was a part of her that knew that it was not quite right. So we found a lot of bottles hidden in cupboards in the bathroom, in the towel drawer, that kind of stuff. And she, the car wrecks were constant.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (9m 49s):
The like the car accidents, we were, we were all terrified to drive it there. I, I remember like exhibit, no, it's true in some ways, because some of it is tragically funny, you know, but I remember like she's barreling toward this stop light and she is not slowing down at all. Her foot never hit the brake. And that's how I opened raising the bottom. Literally her foot never hit the brake. The front end of the car is gone. This is the day before seatbelts. So my brother and I are tossed around like little rag dolls in the car. Thank God nobody's hurt.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (10m 29s):
So she stumbles out of the car and she gets the, the police believing that she's diabetic. And she's having this episode. Well, she's not diabetic. She was drunk, but you know, back then they didn't breathalyze you. Her brothers were prominent. Her family was prominent. She got up everything. She called one of her brothers. I think my dad was at a town and nothing happened, you know? So this kind of went on, but she would do outlandish things. You know, you'd find her as her addiction really escalated. We'd find her under the dining room table passed out a lot. We'd find her in the garden, pass down. She would cook food and never take it out of the package.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (11m 10s):
So you've got these black smoke fires building. I mean, it was just insane. It was insane, you know? And on your good days, days when she tried to parent that we were kind of like, go sit down. Cause you know what I mean? I had two older sisters, younger brother, and we're all just running a mop. We're all off the chain. And I had a horse. So I think that did save me from not getting into drugs and alcohol at a really, really young age because I had my first beer enjoying at 12 years old. So I was dabbling. But then this horse became far more important to me than, you know, any of that.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (11m 52s):
So I, I do, I think it saved me and my drinking, you know, it was there in the background, but not heavily, still though started drinking at 12. And I remember, you know, this should have been a good clue. Like at some school dance, I drank a whole bottle of slogan. Is that red syrupy, sober white carpet, you know, at them like, Oh my God. So I think of that now I want it to just come unglued. Right. So, you know, but you don't think about those things cause it still feels kind of normal. So, you know, I go off and I'm floundering in high school and what did I do?

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (12m 36s):
Oh, I started into beauty school where I'm going to do hair. So I'm doing this and I'm partying like crazy. And I can't seem to finish this nine month little program. So I ended up graduating high school, moved to Columbus, go on to beauty school there, drinking and partying my way up and down high street at Ohio state. And that was again, you know, it was out of control, but we don't look at it that way because I'm still young. Like you can get away with a lot when you're between 18 and 25. I think you can have really bad behavior, but people just say, well, you're young, you're in that college mode. And that's kind of how it was for me.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (13m 16s):
So I was not all that worried about it, but you know, things started to manifest looking back that I had been in and out of college for a decade and never finished a degree. So why was that? Well, because I'm partying and when spring rolls around, instead of going to class partying on, you know, and run in the bars and dropping classes and that kind of stuff. And my, I was living with the gal at the time and she came home and said she was getting married. So, you know, my mom is at the low end of her alcoholism by this time.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (13m 57s):
And there's no way I want to move home because I left him the day after two days after I graduated high school, I left and I moved to Columbus from Youngstown where I grew up.

2 (14m 7s):
So when you say low end, do you mean that your mom is a deep into alcoholism? Yeah.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (14m 11s):
Keep into alcoholism. She is not functioning at all. And you know, she's doing the, the real alcoholic nightmare. She's going to psych wards. They're doping her up with anti-psychotics misdiagnosing her all over the place. And that's why earlier we were talking, why I'm so passionate about the health care aspect, because they're doing a horrible job. And what happened to her is continuing to happen. So they're medicating her with Thorazine and how Don all these awful drugs. And she's a zombie and she's coming home, drinking, falling down.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (14m 53s):
I mean, this cycle was going on and on. And my father's taking her to the Cleveland clinic and he's taking her to all these therapists and psychiatrists and nobody is diagnosing her correctly as an alcoholic. So she's getting worse and worse and worse. And I can take no more of this. And so I leave, I felt bad. I had a little brother he's still there with all that mess. So I leave and yeah, so I'm doing my own thing at Ohio state and I'm getting drunk like she is. And my roommate that I was living with at the time she came home and said she was getting married and I'm like, well, we're like 19, right? So she's getting married. I can't afford to live alone.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (15m 33s):
And lo and behold, some guy is walking across the parking lot. And then he, I found out there was, this phone kept ringing. I'm living in this really crappy apartment, but it had their convenient location next to the varsity club bar and across the street from the OSU stadium. So, I mean, we have roaches and we can't use the oven because the place is a disaster, but the location is suburb. So we can, but I realized I can't even really afford this crappy apartment. So I end up there's this guy upstairs. And he, I go up and tell him, you know, to move his car. And I think I, I had a few ex you know, other speech in there when I told him to move the car.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (16m 19s):
And two months later I married this guy. So he is Mr. Unstable. He's mine stable than my mother. Okay. I see the red flags, but I'm ignoring them, not this big blue Cadillac. So I find out later, I mean, I thought the car was kind of cool, but I didn't realize it was his apartment per se, basically living in the blue Cadillac. He's, he's just off the chain and this has made it a little bit of cocaine. I'm a Catholic girl, right. Where I'm a Catholic. So we go to the church and we're going to do all these marriage classes. Well, he's lying his ass off.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (16m 59s):
Cause I'm wife number three that I find out later, the fact that the priest who marries us dies, I felt like that was very auspicious. He died a few months later after we married as, I mean, probably didn't admit because the whole church has gone. No, this terrible idea, terrible idea. So I've had two, the priest dies. I mean, so that kind of like sealed the deal for where this marriage,

3 (17m 24s):
The whole, right. So

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (17m 27s):
It, I mean, it was just a crap show. It was absolutely the most horrible decision I ever made and truly the red flags were there, but I kind of felt like between a rock and a hard place. And you know, you realize these things down the road, I'm totally using this man because I basically need a roommate and he's the best opera I've got going. Plus I will tell you when he was sober, he was witty and charming. And I didn't realize he drank so much. I think he was kind of hiding that. But like I said, we had a very short courtship of a couple months. So I barely know the guy actually, by the time you get married, so we get married and of course it's a disaster. Now I'm doing Coke with him. He's the kind of guy showing up with wads of cash or none at all broke, completely broke.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (18m 12s):
I find out he's like a compulsive gambler and he loves that game. Pac-Man do you remember that? So

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (18m 19s):
He spent a lot

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (18m 20s):
Of time at the local watering hall getting proficient at Pac-Man and I'm still going to school. So I'm feeling somewhat productive and not too much like a loser because I'm in college yet again now I think I'm yeah, I'm still in my what? 20, not 20 years old. So it's still okay. I'm waiting tables and going to school. And this guy is just off the charts. So

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (18m 44s):
The things I used to do drank, and then lots of cocaine and smoke cigarettes. And I can't imagine myself coked up playing Pac-Man. I would rage every time I die. I think I would just go off the handle because I,

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (18m 56s):
I mean this guy, I don't think he ever got sober. Sadly. I don't know. After I tell you the last time I saw him. So here's how that marriage ended. So one night I think he was in a blackout and he got physically abusive and he threw a little portable TV that literally missed my head by just millimeters. So I slammed the door of our spare bedroom. I'm calling my sister and I didn't know this, but she had called my father. So you don't get your Italian daddy all mad. And he gets up in the middle of the night and drives to Columbus because he's going to kick this guy's butt. Right? So he brings my mother who's at the height of like the epitome of her alcoholism or liver looks like she's nine months pregnant.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (19m 43s):
And we're sitting at this ratty little table in my apartment and they get there about six in the morning. And my mother's doling out value to help me calm down. And she's smoking and sighing and my father's raging and my husband has passed out in the bed. So my father wants to go in there and drag him by the ankles to get his butt up. And we're going to have a, you know, rendezvous in the kitchen. So this guy is like, Oh, can I just get a shower? So my dad relents, right? He goes in the shower, we're sitting there, mom's smoking, I'm crying probably. And it's getting longer and longer. And the water's runnings. And finally, my dad says, go see what he's doing in there.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (20m 26s):
As the shower curtain is flattering in the breeze. See, you know, that's exactly what he did. I've never seen him again in my whole life. That was the last time I thought that, man, are you kidding? You? He escaped out the bathroom window and I've never seen or heard from him. Well, that's what you, I heard from him one other time. After the bathroom, escape months later, you wanted this TV back and the shitty couch and everything else. Well, I get a divorce called notification of publications. Yeah. I didn't even know this was an option. So I go to a priest, right? I want an annulment and he's laughing. And he goes, Oh sweetheart. So he takes me to a lawyer.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (21m 7s):
I didn't even realize it. Like the annulment is the church that the civil divorce. I didn't know that. So he takes me, her lawyer and I get this divorced by notification of publication. They put this ad in this obscure paper that nobody reads. And if he doesn't respond in 90 days, then you go to the judge and voila your divorce. So that's kind of how that happened. So he calls me maybe three months out or four months, whatever. And he says, Oh, Lisa, I'm in Texas. Why don't you come down? I'm like, Nope, we're divorced. He said, well, why did you go and do that? I'm getting myself together. And I just like hung up the phone.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (21m 49s):
Yeah. That doesn't even, you don't even ask where in Texas, that was that, you know? And so I meet someone else three years later and that's the husband that I'm still married to. We just celebrated 35 years yesterday, which is, we cannot believe it. Yeah. Yesterday was our 35th wedding anniversary. Congratulations. That's crazy. I mean, we've been through some crazy stuff. So I meet this guy and we're both partying, like rock stars. And you know, that's kind of how it went. And we moved here to Dayton from Columbus and then we ended up, my husband was studying for the bar exam and he got an opportunity out of the blue.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (22m 32s):
He took it. We ended up in Oklahoma. I ended up my drinking was not really that bad there. I mean, we're drinking really on the weekends. Then I get a job with the airlines and I go to Texas. And then while I'm in this training for six weeks, my husband gets promoted. It ends up in Dallas. And so my drinking did pick up a lot with the flying because you're, I mean, I really enjoyed that lifestyle because it really spoke to my ability to function well in chaos. And so there was, you know, when you're a new flat, I didn't have a regular route. So they're calling me and I'm either going overseas or I'm going here.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (23m 15s):
I'm going there. And it worked for me and we had this commute. And so we're meeting all over the place and we're just having like one big date. And that's really what the first year of marriage was like one big date. And we found this, Marty's in Dallas, this amazing gourmet wine store, and we're buying wine by the case and we're drinking and we're eating all this great food and we're just having a lot of fun. So his brother dies suddenly and we get a call and we ended up moving back to Ohio. And I believe that's when I crossed the line into like active alcoholism, because I could not get a job. I did hair for just a little bit realized I'm going to start doing hair because I hated it.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (23m 58s):
And I, that was not going to work. I talked myself into this advertising and marketing job. I didn't know a thing, but nothing. And I don't know, this guy liked me or something. So he hides me and I ended up learning a lot. And that's really where I discovered I liked to write. So I'm doing all these media buys and writing brochures for these hotel management company is what I was doing. And so my drinking is really picking up because now there was a couple of like people that were selling me, radio advertising. So we go and have those liquid lunches. I'd come back to work and I'd trash, but I just shut my little office door, take a little cat nap, wake back up and carry on.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (24m 44s):
You know, and I remember one day though, going to my little home bar that I used to hit every day at lunch and my drinking, knowing what I knew about alcoholism, because by now my mom is sober. She had finally, she had an accident. She ended up finally getting into rehab because a doctor finally recognized her for what she was. And she went to rehab and she never looked back and she died with 30 or sober. So she's sober. Now my drinking, I started to notice the progression. So I'm going to this little favorite bar to have a beer at lunch. And now I'm having four bears and now I'm having the vodka.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (25m 26s):
And now I'm like getting trashed, you know, pretty much. So I did notice that. And it started to niggle at me. You have those little voices conversations in your head. I don't know if you want to get that where you're Oh, for sure. So I'm starting to have those and I'm thinking, eh, but I'm still justifying it because you know, like we were talking earlier, the props are all in place. I'm married, you're professional, I've got a job I'm showing up to work. You know, everything is fine. And I'm doing a lot of drugs with a friend, a lot of Coke. This one friend, her husband was in a band. So she spent a lot of time. And so it was her and my husband and, and whatnot that were, you know, just having this fun and that board though, that lunchtime bar, I go one day and I'm pulling on the door and I'm like panic, cause it's not opening.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (26m 20s):
And when I looked at my watch, it was only 10:00 AM. So that was like a real slap in the face to me that I went, wow. You know, like I really wanted that drink and I could feel that panic rising in me when I couldn't get it. So that really was a wake up call, but that still was a couple years before I quit. But I'm really starting to think, okay, maybe my drinking is not so normal, but you know, I, I get brushed those episodes aside and you carry on and that's pretty much what I did. And then what was, I don't know. I know my husband said something about my drinking.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (26m 60s):
He didn't really say anything about my drinking. He said about my emotions. He's like, I don't know what's going on with you, but you know, when you're up and down and up and down, and I'm either raging or laughing or very unstable, and that's not my norm. I mean, I'm an unstable volatile person, but I was extremely volatile when I'm drinking. You just really never knew what you're going to get. And so that was kind of the other thing. And then I had this other, I dunno, I kind of feel like it was divine intervention because within a week I remember setting up these little parameters for myself that if I ever shook, because I had no physical symptoms whatsoever, I was not a daily drinker.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (27m 43s):
And I struggled believing that I could have a problem when I didn't drink every day. Now I was probably drinking five days a week, but still every day in my mind, alcoholics were like, my mother, she couldn't go five minutes without drinking. So how could I be an alcoholic? You know, that kind of thing. So

4 (28m 4s):
Yeah. I, I couldn't possibly, I'm not as bad as that person. So I'm fine.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (28m 8s):
I mean, and you can really justify, like I said, you know, I mean, all these props are still in place and nobody else was saying, wow, you have, in fact, I start surveying the bar, you know, Hey, do you guys think of a drinking, bro? You're absolutely fine. Let me get you a drink. Yeah. I must be fine. And I'm bartending for a little bit. I'm still in that restaurant. And then you do a lot of Coke and you figured, fuck it. I'm great. It, it was like, Jesus, you got to find yourself. So if you had this guy that was like a brother to him, that was going to go into the bakery business.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (28m 49s):
Right. So it was kind of like, well, let's come on. At least be my partner in this bakery. So I go into this bakery business. That was another whole dysfunctional story, but we're right next to a bar. So when I'm having a temper tantrum and I'm throwing donuts practically through the plate glass window, because the guy I'm a foodie, I go into business with this guy who cream up shit tasted good to him. He had a terrible palette. So when he's making these greasy horrible donuts and I'm just apoplectic about it, I cannot handle how bad this food is. You know? So we're right. This fucking doughnut, this is terrible.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (29m 29s):
The most dysfunctional employees that was, you know, this one guy was regaling us about his tales of no electricity. And so that was so dysfunctional and I am beside myself. So I just run to the bar, literally it's 12 steps next door. And so I'm pretty much drinking all the time now because this bakery is not going to go. And Fred is in there smoking, smoking. The, the donuts are around this blue haze. It was just pathetic. Yeah. So I was just getting so done with it. So then I think my bottom here's kind of my bottom. It was all during that time.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (30m 10s):
And then my husband finally said something. So when his brother died, we got this little Honda scooter, like a little mini motorcycle. My favorite thing to do was to put a course light in each pocket of my jacket, right around of course, with no helmet and drank my bear and go through the drive-through and just get a beer. So I guess I did this all day, one day and the guy that drive through finally says, lady, why don't you buy a damn 12 pack? And I am not going to drink that much. I felt like I'd been slapped. You know? And so I go home and I draped my thing and I look at, Oh my God, the trash can really is kind of cascading over with beer cans.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (30m 56s):
So I really did drink well, but that's why, so that was like shocking to me. Like I saw it for the first time. I really saw it because I think I did drink like one and get rid of it. That's kind of neat and tidy drinker. And I think I subconsciously did that because I really didn't want to face how much I never let the cans pile up. You know what I mean? I never did drink like that. I was always, even when I was partying with people, I was the one always, you know, or I could still leave a bar with the half a drink on the bar. And I would often the designated driver who would not get as drunk as the rest.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (31m 37s):
So I'm driving people home. I never had a DUI, you know, all these things. But between that, that episode with the trash can that beer drive through guy saying that, and then the next morning I woke up and I did swear, I saw a little shake, but it was enough that had been one of my things if I ever shake. And that bothered me so badly, and that really was my bottom. And I called my mom and I said, I think I need to come home. And I went home and she was like my little treatment center because she got all her AA buddies now, because like I said, she's sober seven years now. And so it was like 10 days.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (32m 18s):
I was going to say 10 days, but I was there probably about a week. And I realized like, I really felt loved and nurtured there, but I don't live there. I live here in Dayton. So I said, you know, I gotta go back home. So I'm sober about three months, I have this one day relapsed. Was that a meeting actually. And did you know, I had been going to meetings pretty much every day for three months, but I didn't do anything. I just showed up when I was angry. Even though I had, nobody told me I had to go to AA, but I decided on my own because I saw my mother changed so dramatically when nothing else had worked for her for 25 years of therapy and doctors and medication, nothing had worked.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (33m 2s):
And she, like I said, she had gotten worse and worse and worse. So I thought, well, it worked for her. I'll do that. But so I go, but I don't change. You know, I don't do anything. I don't get a sponsor. I don't really listen. And I'm just angry. And we're saying the Lord's prayer one day and I decided I'm going to quakes and I'm, which was the bar across the street from eight Glubb and I'm going to go and have a drink. And I did. And I went to the drive-through and had a bottle of wine and got violently ill and not that much alcohol. And that was my bottom. And I decided, why am I doing this? And so I was sober for real, for a couple of weeks. And then I find out I'm pregnant with twins.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (33m 42s):
And so that, that was another very difficult time because then I ended up without going into a lot of detail about it, but I ended up on bedrest in the hospital. And so I had to make a decision. I was going to swallow my pride, you know, and I told these, my doctor and I told the nurses, and I'm sure they were a bit appalled, but I'm like, look, I knew I was on bed rest, but that the hospital where I was had a treatment center and I knew they did meetings. And I said to the doctor, you've got to write an order and they need to wheel me down. It was clear on the other side of the hospital, but you need to wheel me down there so I can go to the meeting. So once a week had a doctor's order, they did and I'm hooked up to my IVs.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (34m 26s):
And I like this I'm, you know, like a balloon about Ray or a whale, more like, but that's where that, I don't know. I feel like that was my second miracle that I just didn't care about my pride, how it looked, who was embarrassed. Like I said, my husband was a lawyer and I think he, I don't know if he was embarrassed or not. He never said anything to me if he was, and I'm glad he didn't because I probably would've asked him out. You know what I mean? But I know that like alcoholism just wasn't really like it is today. It was still, you know, there was no online communities there.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (35m 9s):
I got sober. Believe me. When I walked in day, there was not that many women. I mean, most of the meetings were older men and that's why I struggled because these men had been drinking for decades and they'd been drinking bottles of alcohol for decades. And I did not relate to that. And so it was a little more challenging to hear my story. And I'm glad though, that people said things like, you know, look for the similarities, identify the feelings. How did they feel? And when I could get rid of the, but I'm not like them age-wise this, that or the other. Cause I'm in my late twenties, you know, when I go and finally I did find some women and I realized there were women.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (35m 53s):
I just wasn't seeing them. And I did have to find some women's meetings and things like that. But initially, and I did get sober with a lot of men and I still prefer mix meetings because I love both perspectives, you know? But,

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (36m 8s):
And one of the things that strikes me the most is your identification or at least your understanding now of the active versus passive participation in AA, where, before you went across the street to have the drink after the AA, meaning before that you mentioned it was passive participation versus active. And I think that that's one major takeaway. I leave for me too, that I had to, you have to make the choice to get better. It's it doesn't have to be a significant event. Like you like, meaning that like you'd mentioned rock bottom. Doesn't have to be the rockiest most miserable hell on earth. It could be as simple as that little flutter of a shake or looking at like you'd mentioned the overflowing beer cans, 12 of them in the garbage, like those little tiny things.

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (36m 53s):
They don't have to be tiny, or I'm not suggesting that at all, what I'm saying is it doesn't have to be, I took lives in a car accident, rock bottom. It could be that tiny moment for you, that choice where you now become an active participant in your sobriety. And that's what I love about your shirts.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (37m 9s):
That really, that is a very good way to couch it because that's exactly right. I mean, I was just showing up, you know, and for the people that say, well, I went to a meeting and it didn't work well, it doesn't work if you don't do anything else, but show me

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (37m 23s):
One set up and I still have 35 extra pounds on me

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (37m 29s):
Ready. And I know, you know, at the meeting that I went to a lot of the meetings, they read how it works and that one line, the result was no, until we let go. Absolutely. And I had heard that for three months and I never really heard it. But then when I went back after that one day relapse, I heard it and it literally was the light bulb or the key or whatever that unlocked my sobriety because I then realized if I like, they talk about you're on that fence, you know, which way are you going to go? And I had to, like you said, make a choice. I'm either going to start listening and following directions, stop trying to compare myself out of the rooms and all of those things.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (38m 14s):
And I did, and it was life changing when I realized the result really is new until we let go. And I had to let go of my old life and realize that, okay, you're not going to be going to bars anymore, hanging out. And things like that. I was still trying to kind of do a little bit about that. And that friend, I was trying too hard to hang on to that relationship where she was getting extremely ill. And I later talk about where we take the directions. She ended up, she had two beautiful boys, but she ended up getting on crack and never raised them. And if you would have known what a wonderful person she was before, that's where her addiction.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (38m 56s):
And I think of her. So, so often, but for the grace of God, you know, had I hung onto that relationship, you know, a lot of times people in recovery, they feel bad about friends and that, and she was a dear friend, but I had to let her go because if I would've hung on, I could have went there with her. You know, I, I would like to say, well, I would never try crap, but you know, Y you get drunk enough, you'll do anything. You know, people that are heroin users who say, well, I can still drank. I'm not an alcoholic while they get drunk enough, the needles in their arm, you know, over and over. So addiction is the same big ball. And I'm glad I never found that out because who knows what, you know what I mean?

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (39m 41s):
That very grateful that I didn't try crap, that, that isn't a part of my story. And I'm very grateful for that. I mean, Coke was the only drug that I did and I'm just very grateful to not have, you know, I think I did drop acid once when I was 15 and not good at a very creepy trip off that. So that was the end of that. But yeah, so that was kind of my bottom and then getting sober, you know, I'm living with a man who still drinks. So that's been a challenge in my sobriety. It really has. And you know, is he an alcoholic? I don't think so. He's very functional. He's been a great provider, a great dad, a great spouse, but I'd be lying if I didn't say we haven't had a lot of arguments over alcohol where I felt there have been times when it's been very disrespectful.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (40m 33s):
You know, I've got these twin boys that are amazing sons, they're 30 now, but they drank, they've married. Women who drink, unfortunately. So it, it does concern me, you know, I mean their lives seem to be going, but the isms, you know, you seem like, Oh my God. So I worry about it. But you know, that's a whole other thing. So, you know, I get sober and this is what I really like to talk about for a minute too, is that he is about jumping into the mainstream of life. You know, I feel like sometimes people, they get sober and there is that period where that adjustment period where it feels a little boring.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (41m 16s):
I was so used to a lot of chaos and then the flight attendant life and the different cities and the marriage is a big date and it's fun. And then now it's not fun anymore. It's really a life. And it's nine to five and my husband's working and I'm like, Oh shit, what do I do? And so, you know, I'm sober, I'm pregnant. I have these babies after that difficult thing, I stayed home with them for about six months. I had a miracle kind of happen while I was in the hospital. So I'm going to meetings. And while I'm in the hospital, incubating these babies this, after I have the kids, I get a blood clot. So I think they were like three months old.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (41m 56s):
And this gal from the program walks into my room and I'm like, Oh my gosh, what are you doing here? And she was at a nursing assistant and she said, I'm in nursing school. And that just went it just, and I rolled over and I picked up the phone and I enrolled in school for that fall, which the kids were six months old. And my husband blows a gasket because he's furious that I'm going to go to school after just having these babies and my thinking. And it took us years for, I don't think he ever really understood my thinking was I had pissed away that whole decade of my twenties, when people are setting up their life, they're finishing their education.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (42m 42s):
They're going to grad school, they're going to law school. They're going to med school. They're doing whatever they're going to do. Right. I totally blew that whole decade in and out of

5 (42m 51s):
Three different colleges. So I really,

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (42m 55s):
They felt strongly that maybe that maternal instinct did kick in. And I thought I need to get a job. Something where I can put food on the table for my children. If this marriage doesn't work out because I'm not going to depend on this, man, I did not want to do that with all of his objections. I ended up forging ahead and went to nursing school. And actually it was a blessing because, you know, when you start out, I was only gone for maybe five hours twice a week and it got me out. So I wasn't going completely insane yet. I was there, you know, with my sons. And so it worked out really well. And then there was a rough year where you are doing clinicals and all that. And it was hell I don't know how I stayed sober, but my life was very, very small for three years.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (43m 39s):
It consisted of meetings, nursing school and the grocery store. And honestly, that was my life. And then twins. I mean, it was so hard and my husband was not that supportive of school at all. And actually his drinking was a bit off the chain during this time. I think he had so much resentment. So it was just a very toxic period in our marriage. Had I not been a strong person, I pretty much laid down the law with my husband. And I tell people your sobriety has to come first. And so I made it very clear to him, do not try to get in between me and the meetings and sobriety because you will lose.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (44m 23s):
And I just made that very clear. I mean, and I don't know. I feel like that was divinely given me strength to not, you know, I could have been very fearful and, Oh my God, I have twins, but I'm like, no, because I just knew in my gut that my bottom could have looked very much like my mothers. I mean, I'm half of her, right? So that could have been a reality for me. All of the things that never happened to me could have easily happened. And I thought, I am not going to do this to my kids, having this crazy childhood. Like I had, that was very toxic. And my father was a rageaholic and a physically abusive and mentally abusive and emotionally not there, you know?

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (45m 7s):
And it's like, that was everything I did not want for my own kids. So I forged ahead and I graduated valedictorian of my class and, you know, after graduating got a job and I'm very great. I only worked part-time I worked three days a week. I think that was back in the day before that 12 hours shifts. So I worked three days a week and it was a perfect balance for me that I was able to spend a lot of time with my kids, but I had that intellectual stimulation that you need to like, get the heck out of the house. And, you know, that's when after that, then I started, it was, I wasn't at a nursing school, but four days. And I had this very spiritual experience in my kitchen where I was home alone and I'm cleaning up the kitchen and I hear a voice.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (45m 55s):
Now I want you to write a book. I mean, I thought I was losing my mind. I went through every room of the house. I thought my husband or somebody came home, him and the kids were gone. My sons were about four at the time. And I thought, Oh my God, God did I just hear that? And so literally it's just that flashback for me from when you're 15 crazy. And I, and so I ended up doing, getting a computer and that sat in the corner of the spare bedroom for months. And I went to adult school and learn how to blah, blah, blah. I could go on and on. But you know, that was another gift from God, because I think that saved our marriage because when my husband was in his insanity, I started writing fiction novels.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (46m 40s):
And so, you know, th raising the bottom is my sixth book. So I wrote all the fat. So I was writing all these books and he's raging and drinking and being crazy. And I'm just writing I box and bring them, you know, and eventually, and I remember saying to God, like, if you want this marriage, we're going to have to fix it. I'm not going to counseling. I'm not doing any of it. I'm done. You know what I mean? I'm all set. I'm an alcoholic and God goddammit. I'm going to meetings and I'm, and that's enough. That's all I can do right now. That's all I got know anymore. And yeah, so that's an, I just talk about letting go, right?

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (47m 21s):
We let it go, God, if you want it to work, fix it. And you know what he did, he fixed it. And it ended up being lovely. And know those years when I was very, very unhappy. And I tell women that I work with now play the tape forward, you know, get happy. I had to find a life of my own. And that's what I did. And you know, like I said, he was a great dad. My husband was a wonderful dad and I have to think about my sons. It wasn't just about me being happy. It's about what's best for my kids. The best thing for my children was to have their parents, both living under the same roof with a mom who had the ability to work part-time because my husband is a good provider.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (48m 4s):
Maybe some people would say, well, that's shallow. Well, I don't care. Actually. It was a great decision. And here we are, 35 years later, you know, I had about seven years, honestly, where I was desperately unhappy, but between writing books, and then I also went back and got an English degree. So I'm writing all these books. I feel like a total fraud because when we read classics in high school, I can't remember a damn one of them because I'm drinking. So I go back and I get it. You know, I've got my bachelor degree, I've got my nursing degree. I'm sufficient. And it all worked out, you know, that his sobriety and that's what recovery is.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (48m 48s):
You've got to get busy and get moving. I mean, if you're going to get sober, you need to get off the couch when you're drinking and you're sitting on the couch drinking, and you feel miserable and all that, I wanted nothing to do with that life anymore. So it was about getting into the mainstream of life, finishing my education. And like I said, my husband, I remember vividly, we had this one blow out fight because he's resentful now because he's paying for my college for my nursing school. And he's like, well, you should have done it when your dad was going to pay for it. And I said, well, should it cut a what up

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (49m 24s):
Shit I'm doing it now you're a lawyer,

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (49m 28s):
The waitress, when he married me, you know what I mean?

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (49m 34s):
I love that you going from passive to active participation in sobriety, I was a wonderful moment from our conversation. But I also think one thing is mentioned and that I want to hear more about your wonderful book is that sobriety seems boring, but it's only boring against the backdrop of chaos. So when you give up the alcoholism and the alcohol and the drugs, of course, things are not going to be kept, are going to be mellow. And it might feel boring for a minute. But then the beauty is in the simplicity and the beautiful routines of life, the normal routines of life without the crazy chaos and I that, because I had, I, I love that side of it where it might, it does take a little bit of getting used to, I tell people that I had 40 plus years of horrible habits to break, right?

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (50m 19s):
So yeah, life is going to be different and life is going to seem a little bit boring. Cause I'm not ripping lines and cocaine and slamming alcohol would be chance I get, so yeah, it's boring. It is a glorious wonderful in the sunshine life for me now much like you've described. And I love that.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (50m 35s):
That was beautifully said how you said, I mean, w what is my mom used to say, if you're bored, it's because you're boring. When you realize like, wow, when you're drinking, my life was a narrow hallway. If I went to work and then it was all about the party, you go to bed and you do it all over again. So what am I really doing with my life? I'm drinking and I'm working to sustain my drinking. So, you know, you'd get sober. Like you said, it does feel like God, what do I do with myself? But everybody that I know who, you know, and it took a year or so. I mean, I just did a lot of meetings. And then of course, going to nursing school when I'm brand new sober, that I think was very good for me because I looked back and it felt like hell at the time.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (51m 23s):
But that structure was very good to help, you know, not want to have that chaos so much because I had a lot of structure and it was very hard structure with all the studying that. But looking back, I thought, you know, that was really probably what kept me focused and on the straight and narrow path. And then I have yet to meet a person that hasn't found their gift, you know, like, look, you're now doing podcasts and all these other cool things. So, you know, new recovery is an adjustment and, and you just want to encourage people to like, hang in there with it and then start trying new things, you know, go volunteer, get a fricking job.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (52m 7s):
If you don't have a job,

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (52m 9s):
I sit still and do nothing. Like just shoot whatever it is. I couldn't agree more. I love, I love your story. And can you tell us a little bit about, I know that we have a hard stop and I'd love to learn more about your book because of your description of it, where rock bottom. Doesn't have to be so damn Rocky. I love that. Right?

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (52m 29s):
Right. So raising the bottom, making mindful choices in a drinking culture. So I wrote that book, honestly, I feel like my mom died in 2011. And while when I'm writing fiction, she would say, what are you working on now lease? And I tell him, I, you know, and she said, why don't you write about alcoholism? And I would, you know, it said, well, mom, there's, there's so many legs to that stool, right? I mean, we could talk for endlessly about what Avenue, what rabbit hole do you want to go down when it comes to whatever? So, I don't know, one day it just hit me like a ton of, I was like, and that's kind of how all of my books have happened when they happen.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (53m 15s):
It just, I wake up literally in one day I was like, bam. And I just knew the angle that I wanted to approach. And so I wanted to approach raising bottom. Like we said, how Rocky does that? Bottom have to be, it doesn't have to be horrible. You don't have to kill someone in a drunk driving accident. You don't have to blow through three marriages before you finally, you know, you don't have to ruin your relationship with your children for good. I mean, that's so heartbreaking. And it happens to people because they drank too long. They waited too long. And I say, you know, the only thing that that is life changing is so honesty.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (53m 58s):
If we can be honest with ourself, truly, that is the only thing that is totally life changing. So if you see a progression in your drinking, and that's why these podcasts and things are so important that we talk about this. So people understand early alcoholism could be nothing more than you notice that your drinking has progressed. So it could be, it could be two drinks instead of one after the other mean. And now you're drinking four days a week instead of two days a week. And now you're drinking three drinks four days a week. And so if you notice it progression, wake up and pay attention and start thinking, wow, am I using this to self-medicate, what's going on?

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (54m 42s):
You know, some people, it may just be pure habit and they're not even really aware of it. Once you become aware of it, you can put the brakes on, and then there's other people. If you find that you cannot put the brakes on, start thinking about, you know, what, maybe I am an alcoholic and get on and start listening to podcasts or check out AA or do whatever you need to do, but start trying to get a little bit of self honesty. So that's kind of the focus of my book. And I picked people that did not have dramatically low bottoms. Like my mother did, you know, some of them were lower than mine, but I chose people. I have three doctors in the book.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (55m 23s):
One was a surgeon who said, she never thought she could have a problem because she's working, doing surgery, coming home, drinking wine. But her kids were so distressed because you knew after you have a few drinks, you're not the same person and found the giggling and the stuff. They just were really turned off by it. How, what she, you know, and so her bottom was doing that one night and seeing the look on her kids' faces. She said, she drove back to the hospital, told her surgery partners. I think I'm an alcoholic. And they said to her, surely you're not. I mean, these are surgeons who didn't want to believe.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (56m 3s):
One of their partners could be an alcoholic shame on them, but this is where we are in healthcare. You know? So I wanted to talk about those kinds of things. The people that, you know, I have another doctor in the books, she was an ER doctor. And she said, I picked that specialty even way back in medical school. I didn't want to take call that would with my drinking. So she knew back then. So there's a lot of doctors who are alcoholics. I just went through all that. That's another reason to question your doctor. You know, the average population who's going to be an alcoholic is about 10% in physicians. It's 14%, you know, maybe the stress of their jobs or whatever.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (56m 46s):
So those are the kind of people. I also did. Moms. I have a chemical most there's mostly women, but there are a few men in the book. One was a chemical dependency, counselor, John. And he said that, you know, he did hit a lower bottom. He was digging, his addiction, took him to digging graves. And he realized like, wow, I'm kinda digging my own grave up. I don't get sober. And he did so breath and he's now a CD counselor, but so, yeah, so those are the stories that I wanted to tell. And like I alluded to early, I also did a chapter to what your kids say about you and your drinking. Because there were two of the doctors had daughters that were like 16 and 15, and I asked them to write a letter.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (57m 28s):
So they did. And at my book signing, there were tears coming down. Some of the people's faces because how these girls felt with their mothers drinking, you know, they feel these, the kids internalize it, that you don't care about me. You care more about your drinking. And I can kind of relate to that because I don't know that I ever internalized my mother doesn't care. I think I just became so calloused. And even now I'm probably not, you know, people that I sponsor, they all know she's not going to be a warm, fuzzy sponsors.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (58m 8s):
So, and I think it's because I didn't get the nurturing that, you know, deserved. And so my sponsor is very nurturing and empathetic. And I think I picked her to maybe teach me some of those qualities that I really wasn't taught. Well. So, you know, it does impact us when we're raised with all this insanity around us, you know, and I had a lot of things that I had to work through with forgiving my father. I think some of his rage was just, he felt so out of control with my mother being so unstable. And so now I can understand that, but when you're a child, you know, I mean, you just, the self-esteem is like, non-existent between this mother who can't parent you and this father who was just nothing but critical and just pretty much awful.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (58m 58s):
You know? I mean, he wasn't screaming. He wasn't saying anything. And I, you know, like I said, looking back, I think he was just terrified and he was fearful and that came out as anger. Cause he didn't know how to really express, you know? And that was a different generation too.

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (59m 14s):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. You obviously I'm pointing fingers or blaming anybody, anything because you have to own, you have to own the addiction. You have to own your, your, your disease or sickness. And I think that you've done a marvelous job of that and I'm excited to read your book and I, I'm excited because of the layered approach that you have in the, through the eyes of the children is a fantastic talk about life. In real terms, having being a father, myself of a, of an eight and a five-year-old now

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (59m 46s):
Good because, you know, I, I point out things that really ticked me off and I, you know, my kids, I have one grandchild now and I wonder, I hope my kids are going to be aware of this, but any more you go to a three-year-old's birthday party and it's all about the beer and the wine for the parents. Why is it all about the parents all the time? You know what I mean? If you can't have a, three-year-old like there's more beer cans and wine bottles than cupcakes and balloons. If we allowed that to happen, you know, I mean, and I like to say, well, if you don't have a problem with alcohol, it shouldn't be a problem to not drink for two hours at a three year old birthday party, right.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (1h 0m 31s):
We remarked role model something better for the children than constant drinking. And then why they're drinking at 12 and they're cutting themselves. And they're having all these emotional problems because the parents aren't there, they're there, but they're not there because the, all about the parent party and people don't want to hear that. But don't talk about,

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (1h 0m 56s):
Listen, I am not blaming anybody for anything, but I made a hard choice because of my experience and how bad of an alcoholic and a drug addict that I was, I wanted to lead by example, by the subtle approach to life. Meaning I didn't want to have my kids see me drinking every day after work or whatever, whatever it is. And, and I, so my wife still drinks, but she's a very casual drinker. I mean maybe a glass of wine or two every three or four months. And I'm not justifying the level of tracking.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (1h 1m 23s):
Well, I'm not anti-alcohol for people like my God bless her. You know what I mean? And if I like that, I would be drinking. I'm not going to lie. I mean, I absolutely, if I could have even one glass of wine a day, there's no doubt in my mind I would be drinking, but I can't do that.

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (1h 1m 40s):
I would be, that'd be my first, that's the first domino to fall for me. And I'm calling my drug dealer and I'm going to get it. It would be a shit show, but I wanted to lead by example for my children. For me, this is me saying this about me and my children. I'm not suggesting to anybody listening to this is what they need to do. When I'm saying, though is for me, I wanted to break the cycle, having grown up with an alcoholic father, may he rest in peace? God love him. But I wanted to change the rule book, the playbook for my kids so that they could see a life without drinking every day or the, the phrase it's five o'clock somewhere. I think people need to realize how much fucking damage that can do when you plant that goddamn seed in some kid's head that it's five somewhere. What do you think they're going to do?

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (1h 2m 21s):
They're going to send, well, I'll be drinking and no time bullshit like that. And those little things, or, and this is the other one my friends will say, well, and I'm not pointing at any in particular. And I say friends by people I've talked to through in her, on the show and other guests and things. One of the indicators that I always in the back of my mind look at, if you start drinking vodka sodas, and all of a sudden you're drinking vodka, rocks, splashes soda, which was my path. You, again, you may have a problem. All you're doing is you're reducing the amount of alcohol and decreasing the amount of, you know, the pour over. So those are those little, nicators all matters.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (1h 2m 56s):
It would matter. And if people understood that those are indicators and could be honest with themselves, not to brush them off and justify him, you know? Yeah. So, I mean, there's just those things that as a culture, everything is so boozy. Now, it wasn't like that when I was raising my sons, I mean, now women are going on play dates, drinking, like in what world does that make any kind of sense? So now you're driving home with three glasses of wine on your belt, that's drinking and driving with your babies on board, but we justify that or, Oh, you have to do is look on Facebook at like some of those wine means and the stuff they sell or the shirt like 2020, the only way to get through it is to drink.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (1h 3m 41s):
I mean, this is kids seeing 24 seven, and we wonder why we have a drinking and drug problem in our country. So, you know, my whole book, I wanted people to like start being mindful of that kind of stuff. Like, okay, if I don't have a problem, then maybe I do need to be more aware of what I'm role modeling do. I need to drink every day in front of my kids. If I really don't have a problem with alcohol, then maybe I need to wait until they're in bed. So they don't have to see it. You know? And when you have kids drawing pictures at school, like with tears, you know, I wish my mommy did less of this and they're drawing a picture of a stick figure with a wine glass.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (1h 4m 22s):
That child is already very distressed because kids express themselves. So if you've got a, four-year-old drawing pictures of mommy with a wine glass, hello, you know, it's not, I mean, it's actually very sad.

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (1h 4m 39s):
It really is. And I know that you have another call, so I want to be mindful of, of your, of your time. But I want to say thank you so much for coming on the show, telling your story, sharing details about your wonderful book, raising the bottom. I will have links to your book in the show notes in details about where people can find you to learn more about your other wonderful books as well.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (1h 5m 1s):
I'll tweet it and put it on my social media too.

Anthony Capozzoli of the Dismantled Life Podcast (1h 5m 4s):
Absolutely. And let me tell you though, I'm going to say one more thing in, thank you so much for being a wonderful guest. I learned a lot from you.

Lisa Boucher of Raising the Bottom (1h 5m 12s):
It's been great talking with you.